A Call To Answer

I would like to thank Patrick of whysoseriousdotcom.wordpress.com for taking the time to read my post and give his refutation. Below is my response to his post. This is a bit lengthy.

In Patrick’s post, he says “The Catholic Church was the one, who, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, determined what books belonged in the canon, and which did not.” and “The Bible itself would not be in existence if not for the Catholic Church.”

God can use even pagan kings to safeguard His temple’s articles (2 Chronicles 36:7, Ezra 5:14-15, Ezra 6:5) and it is evident that the Catholic Church has played a major part in the compilation of the Bible. No one denies this. What is argued is, are Catholic extrabiblical teachings consistent with what Jesus Himself taught in Scripture?

Patrick says “These events were previously taught orally, before they were written. We are both lucky and thankful that Christ’s Apostles decided to write down His teachings, as Christ never commanded them to write any of it on paper.”

The teachings which we now have in the Bible encompassed the traditions that were spoken of (i.e. breaking of the bread in Luke 22:19, the whole of Titus 2, James 1:27 etc.) The Catholics have the Catechism which has dogma that negates what was “orally taught” by Jesus to the apostles. Some Catholics substantiate their position by stretching the meaning of John 21:25, “Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written” to cover their biblically contradicting traditions which some even fall under superstition. I know this from experience. It varies depending on what part of the world you’re in. Some countries are more pious than others, some go as far as re-enacting the crucifixion of Jesus Christ by having someone play as Jesus Christ and be actually crucified during Lent as part of their “tradition.”

The apostle Paul advised the believers “not to go beyond what is written” in 1 Corinthians 4:6 and he went and consulted with the other apostles what he was preaching as recorded in Galatians 2:1-2, “Then after fourteen years, I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along also. 2 I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain.”

Patrick says “Catholics believe that the Bible is the written form of God’s Word, and it is inerrant.”

A claim of biblical inerrancy is null and void especially when a person’s deed (bowing to idols most obviously and the deification of a created being, Mary) and merit based salvation which Catholics cannot circumvent the seven sacraments contradict what was written, grace through faith in Ephesians 2:8-9, in effect reducing a Catholic’s claim to nothing more but a vain profession, which Catholics also fall into Jesus’ strong rebuke in Matthew 15:8-9, “‘These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. 9They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’”

Patrick says “For Sola Scriptura to work, it would have to be found in the Bible.”

The word “Trinity” itself is not found in Scripture yet Christians (those clearly not belonging to cults) unanimously agree that God is revealed in Scripture as triune in nature as evidenced in Jesus’ baptism (Matthew 3:16-17). We know the NT in Scripture came about from Christ’s teachings to the apostles and Jesus said that if we abide in His word, we are truly His disciples (John 8:31). Abiding by His recorded teachings/doctrine translates to Sola Scriptura – Scripture alone. Where else would you get Jesus Christ’s teachings but in Scriptures alone? Jesus quoted the Old Testament which affirms and confirms it and the New Testament is a record of Jesus’ teachings to His apostles.

Patrick says ““All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, that the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17) This verse does not say that Scripture is sufficient;

Since Patrick says “Catholics believe that the Bible is the written form of God’s Word, and it is inerrant,” what he proclaims to be inerrant also happens to be the complete revelation of God about Himself and His will. It has truths that apply from the beginning of all things all the way to the end. We are merely inhabitants in the middle of that timeline and to suggest Scripture is not sufficient in doctrine that shows us the way to live out what counts as righteousness in God’s eyes, not man, is plain assertion that one knows better than what God has revealed and in His sovereignty allowed to be recorded in Scripture. If Patrick stays true to his statement about Catholics holding to biblical inerrancy, then, if the word of God “endures forever” as stated in Isaiah 40:8, it is a clear implication of Scripture being MORE than sufficient to govern a professing believer’s way of life.

Patrick says “Essential to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is the idea that the Holy Spirit will enlighten each believer as to the correct interpretation for a given Bible passage. This idea presupposes that each believer possesses a Bible or at least has access to a Bible.”

There are a lot of organizations and individuals giving out free bibles and it is freely accessible on the internet. One simply will have no excuse since even most hotel rooms have bibles in their drawers. God can convict someone by way of a bible verse that really pierces one’s heart or God can direct a person to hear someone who is preaching true to His word. Even those with the gift of teaching even has to be scrutinized if what they are teaching aligns with scripture.

Patrick says “Christians did not need a Bible to know God’s Word, as they had His Word in the oral form of Tradition, and were taught by His Church, the Pillar of Truth.”

If this is true, can one truly know God and what He considers righteous apart from His revelation? The verses in Acts 17:29-30 states, “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.”

The passage mentions ignorance of what God considers as righteous. How can we know what is righteous to God? Through His Word alone, Scripture alone – Sola Scriptura. How do you think cults are formed? Because they have views apart from what God Himself revealed. If Patrick is referring to the Catholic Church as the “Pillar of Truth,” why then did it suppress the dissemination of His Word that it even burned people for merely translating it to English to be easily accessible to many?

Patrick says “And, if Sola Scriptura were true, wouldn’t all Christians who adhere to the doctrine be in agreement on Christian teaching? There are thousands of “Christian” denominations, all teaching different doctrines. Are they all correct?“

All Christians adhering to Sola Scriptura hold to the same basic doctrine but will inevitably still differ in views on non-salvific issues because of the fact that each believer vary in their maturity in Christ. Some live their lives resigned to the prompting of the Holy Spirit and some live a lifestyle conformed to the pattern of this world. Some try to live in the middle and reconcile both biblical teachings & worldly teachings and this is where ALL dissension stems from. The more a person gets acquainted with God’s Word, the more a person can easily detect whether a teaching is sound or deviates from what is written.

James 3:13-16 states, “13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.”

Verse 15 clearly tells us NOT ALL teaching comes from God and this includes Catholic dogma that nullify what Scripture already revealed. Verse 16 convicts the Catholic Church when they prohibited the circulation of Scripture for ulterior motives. Why do you think the Vatican happens to be its own sovereign nation, a city-state, the Roman Catholic Church empire? If the Catholic Church is the supposed one and true church, their city-statehood is a direct contradiction to what Jesus said in John 18:36 that His kingdom “is not of this world.”

Patrick says “The only God-given institution that is infallible and error-free is the Catholic Church, as founded by Christ Himself. Christ’s Church teaches that Sola Scriptura is a heretical, man-made tradition that leads one away from the Truth, not closer to it.”

Again I refer you to Jesus’ recorded words in John 8:31-32, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

How does one holding to the recorded teachings of Jesus Christ in Scripture lead one away from the truth when Jesus Himself said that if one sticks to it, it will only set one free? If God told Moses and the prophets to write down His commandments and precepts, since God does not change, the logical conclusion would be that God’s intent for the New Testament to be recorded through the apostles would be consistent with His character. His Word is complete.

[Note: To anyone thinking of doing a counterpost, make sure to take a snapshot of the original post and highlighting specific quotes instead graphically. It will ensure that you are locking in the original post and easier to detect if significant changes were made.]

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101 thoughts on “A Call To Answer

    1. Yup. Common thread for cults (I personally think the RCC is the biggest one) is that they have extra books of their additions/traditions which contradict the complete revelation of Jesus Christ.

      Thanks for visiting.

      Liked by 1 person

  1. Thanks for taking the time to make a response to my response. I’ll comment again later, but one point I want to address right now:

    “Essential to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is the idea that the Holy Spirit will enlighten each believer as to the correct interpretation for a given Bible passage. This idea presupposes that each believer possesses a Bible or at least has access to a Bible.”

    I’m sorry not to have clarified this, but I was not speaking of the availability of the Bible in the world today, but its availability before the making of the printing press. What did Christians rely on before the Bible was mass produced?

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    1. Believers relied on tradition passed from generation to generation to the point that God’s sovereignty made it that it had to be written and compiled so that no one would add or take away from the gospel. I can only speculate the tradition was probably getting to the point of being mangled that God ensured its printing before the gospel got corrupted beyond recognition, as also prophesied that some will depart from the faith heeding to doctrines of demons spoken of in 1 Timothy 4:1 during the latter times.

      Somewhere along the line when something is passed from generation to generation, I think we can both agree that something is bound to be forgotten. Only God knows the exact reasons why He gave humanity the knowledge to invent the printing press when He did which also encompasses the fruition of what was prophesied in Daniel 12:4 that “knowledge will increase” which this prophecy also includes humanity having the full revelation of Jesus Christ all in one book. What made into the canon of Scripture is instituted by God, regardless of who put it together since God can use anything and anyone. The Pharisees taught the Torah but Jesus said in Matthew 23:3, “so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.”

      A great example of this is found in Mark 7:10-13, “10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’;and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

      Jesus was against their tradition which nullified God’s commandment. Herein tells you that observance of tradition is not prohibited as long as they are not in clear contradiction to God’s Word and the traditions are the very same ones which are compiled in our bibles today. Anything that did not make it in Scripture falls under speculation and in danger of promulgating a completely different gospel, one that is accursed which we see the Catholics do today with Mary negating the supremacy of Jesus Christ.

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    2. Who or what served as the final Christian authority up to the time that the New Testament’s canon was identified? And if there was a final authority before the establishment of the canon, on what basis did that authority cease being final once the Bible’s canon was established?

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    3. The early Christians had letters from the apostles which the council put it together. That served as the authority for the believers. A clear example of this is what Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 1:3-11 as seen below.

      No Other Doctrine
      “3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia—remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.

      8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.”

      Since these letters were compiled into what we have as our Bibles today, the apostles by way of their letters had continuity when it came to authority. It wasn’t who was in possession of these letters that had the authority as you deem it to be the Catholic Church institution- which the minute they called it that, universal, became something else other than what it purports to be, Christian. It was the message itself coming from the apostles that was authoritative and the early church recognized these letters to be coming from the apostles.

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  2. Part of the problem is speaking of the Catholic Church as if it were the same organization over the course of two thousand years. God worked through the Catholic Church in its early years to select and preserve the writings of the apostles. In no way does that authorize mistaken councils such as Trent or Vatican II to ratify doctrine which is unbiblical. J.

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    1. Amen. Simply that, an instrument of preserving the text like God did with Cyrus and the temple articles. Nothing more.

      Being the sole authority and bearer of truth? I don’t think so and it’s quite evident that church is devoid of truth since its inception.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. The doctrines defined at Trent were believed long before the Council began. As for Vatican II, it was a heretical council making an attempt at “Christian unity” through ecumenism instead of conversion.

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  3. Patrick has to be on some type of medication to say this: “(2 Timothy 3:16-17) This verse does not say that Scripture is sufficient;”
    It says ALL scripture is profitable, which plainly means that the only teachings that will help you spiritually to grow and stay in the faith is only found in scripture. See 2 Peter 2:2 and Mathew 7:24-27

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    1. Has to be on some type of medication, huh? What a low blow from an adult Christian to a 15 year old Catholic. Nice.

      Everyone please open up a dictionary and look up profitable and sufficient.

      Profitable

      1.(of a business or activity) yielding profit or financial gain.
      synonyms: moneymaking · profit-making · commercial · successful · solvent ·
      in the black · gainful · remunerative · financially rewarding · paying · lucrative · bankable
      antonyms: loss-making

      2.beneficial; useful:
      “he’d had a profitable day”
      synonyms: beneficial · useful · advantageous · valuable · productive · worthwhile ·
      rewarding · fruitful · illuminating · informative · well spent
      antonyms: fruitless · useless

      Sufficient
      enough; adequate:
      “a small income that was sufficient for her needs” ·
      synonyms: enough · plenty of · ample · adequate · satisfactory

      Hmmm…..I don’t know….maybe I am high on drugs, Spaniard, but I don’t think these two words mean the same. Anyone else?

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    2. “Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! 21Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes And clever in their own sight!”
      -Isaiah 5:20-21

      For people to claim God’s written and recorded word is not sufficient amounts to nothing else but arrogance. This is why Catholics when they kiss perfumed statues can reason it is not idolatry. The verse below is what God would say to any Catholic,

      “But to the wicked person, God says: “What right have you to recite my laws or take my covenant on your lips? You hate my instruction and cast my words behind you.“
      Psalm 50:16-17

      Such practice is in direct contradiction to Exodus 20:4, “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.” (see also Deuteronomy 4:16)

      I can say during my life as a Catholic, I did not understand that Jesus was the only way. My hope for you is that He will open your eyes before it is too late. You think you are doing God’s work defending a church whose priests (those who were convicted of doing so) corrupt innocent children and at the same time pretend to be holy. You ought to be ashamed of yourself defending such an institution! Your trusted holy men can’t even be trusted! What a shame!

      If you read God’s word and are truly intent in knowing the truth, you will leave this abominable institution like I did.

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    3. Thanks for your sympathy, but it is not needed. I will likewise pray for you, that you may come out of your man-made tradition, and come home to the RCC. I am very proud and thankful to be a member of the Catholic Church.

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    4. You are 15 years old….lol….I thought you were an old man….lol

      Okay I take it back you are not on medications but maybe too much on Catholics extra Biblical sources, that would be the medication which I would refer to you.

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    5. Hmm. If you say so.

      John 16:13 states, “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.”

      Since you are still in the Catholic Church, you are devoid of the Holy Spirit.

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    6. One thought, since you are a Protestant, and your beliefs are based of your own interpretation of the Bible, is it not accurate to say that you never truly know if you are correct?

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    7. The bible was penned by laypeople to be understood by any common man. If you claim to have read the whole bible twice, have you skipped the part in 1 Corinthians 3:19, “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight.”

      The Catholics have inculcated in the minds of their adherents that you need someone to interpret it for you. My own mother says that and that’s why Catholics have that seeming internal consistency because they adhere to the same script of how to address people who disagree. Sadly Catholic thinkers don’t think for themselves.

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    8. I don’t think you answered my question. I guess you skipped over it.

      Last time I checked, the Bible showed that it was okay to ask a teacher for help on understanding Scripture. Acts 8:28-31

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    9. The literal context is something any person don’t need aid with. I do ask for help and I ask the Holy Spirit to show me. I do listen to pastors who do not contradict the written word when it comes to their teachings.

      “And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. ”
      -1 Corinthians 2:13-14

      These verses tell you the importance of the Holy Spirit and like I said, since you still lean to the Catholic Church, you are devoid of the Spirit of Truth.

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    10. I understand but 2 years and only or mostly reading other sources doesn’t make you knowledgeable in God’s Word. If you take all that time and just read the bible I guarantee you that you will come out with a different perspective.

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    11. Friend, I have read the Bible, and other sources. Are all the sources Catholic? No. I want to get a wide view of Christianity, taking in the beliefs of different denominations, seeing which add up historically and Biblically.

      Please don’t start viewing me in a different light because of my age. I am competent enough to make my own decisions based upon my studies.

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    12. I’m sorry but you are just a little kid who is on cloud nine because you have read Catholic books which translated the bible for you. You’re just a little kid. I got saved when I was 14 and I read a lot but I would not say that I knew more than those who truly studied for years but I would ask questions and learn. I would match up their answers with what the Bible says. It was a learning process which still continues to this day. I learned because I was humble but if you think you know more than everyone else then you will never learn the scripture.

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    13. I’m sorry for you, Spaniard. You are just a man lost in heretical man made tradition. Age does not make one wise Spaniard. I believe I have better theological knowledge than you solely on the basis that while you claim to understand much of Scripture, you remain outside Christ’s Church.

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    14. I understand NOW why you call scripture as man-made. To reject scripture for other sources meaning to have extra sources trump scripture is to worship someone above Jesus. I can you know if you don’t have the Holy Spirit in your heart.

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    15. I didn’t refer to the Bible as “man-made”. I believe the belief that the Bible is the ultimate, sole Christians authority, aka Sola Scriptura, is a man-made tradition.

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    16. I have read the Bible, and I would assume that you also have. I don’t think you know me well enough to deem whether or not I am knowledgeable about God’s Word. Then again, you will easily say that any Catholic isn’t knowledgeable about God’s Word.

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    17. Catholics right now who are Catholics by association, like I was, born into the faith, went to Catholic school in a diehard Catholic family who barely read Scripture.

      This is true. You ask them what “Mary conceived without sin” means and they think it’s Mary who is sinless… Egregious at best.

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    18. Catholics who barely read the Scriptures are in fact shameful. They should be reading it more than they are. As Jerome said, “Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.”

      I for one am not in that group of people.

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    19. Again, starting here, its just you and I saying the same things about each other. You’ll argue I worship Mary, I’ll deny it. I’ll argue that you go by the man-made tradition of Sola Scriptura, you’ll say its perfectly biblical. Anyone may claim that they are Christian and interpret the Bible correctly, but can all be correct? No.

      Its off subject, but what is your opinion of the Reformers, particularly Luther?

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    20. I don’t go by Luther or the Reformers. If you truly read the post you grabbed my quote from, you would have realized that by now. I stick with Scripture Alone- Sola Scripture since Jesus said if I abide in His words, I am His disciple.

      If you say you read, read… so I don’t have to address myself repeatedly.

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    21. I believe that God used them at that time. They had some good points and bad but I take to heart what Scripture says about the guidance of the Holy Spirit and frankly, we are blessed to live in such a time where Biblical prophecy is unfolding right before our eyes. In this aspect, we know more and can line up prophecies that have not yet taken place during Luther’s time, most especially, the reestablishment of Israel. In this point, Luther’s replacement theology is in grave error. I acknowledge that God used those men pivotal for the reformation but my conviction leads me not to go beyond what is written as prescribed by the apostle Paul. Doing so also translates as Sola Scriptura.

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    22. Nope, you are wrong. I have been a Christian for a long time but i started to read and do deep study on God’s Word since 2009. It takes time and effort on a person to know the Lord through His Word. 2 years is not sufficient to truly know scripture and especially if you do it with someone’s interpretation. You cannot learn the Bible being bias or leaning in one direction. You need to truly seek the Lord Patrick through His Word alone and He will reveal Himself to you.

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    23. It is not just time and effort. It is the Holy Spirit illuminating one’s mind to grasp the Spiritual Truths in addition to time and effort.

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    24. For a little kid, you sure are prideful. I guess if two years is enough time for you to know more than those who have done it for years, by all means, rejoice in what you have because that’s all your get. Pride will keep you stunted.

      I’m still shaking my head on how a 15 years old knows more than mature Christians…wow.

      My son is 15 and knows the Bible very well and still wouldn’t act with half your pride. I never would have known that 15 years old could think that they know more, amazing.

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    25. Catholics can claim to be Christian but the moment the church imposed as being the “universal” church, it stopped being Christian, coercing people to convert, recant or die. Jesus never advocated such atrocious methods for one to believe in Him. Life is much better than the Catholic Church when you truly know the savior.

      And you’re pretty much an aberration when it comes to being Catholic. I still know a lot of them so you can’t deny most of them don’t even believe Jesus is the ONLY way.

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    26. For someone who has apparently studied the Bible, its amazing that he is still a non-Catholic.

      Truthfully, I cannot really say that you really are Christian. After all, if one does not accept all Christian teaching, can they be Christian? Catholics are the only true, complete Christians.

      Its amazing on how you have changed your view of me since learning my age. You regarded me as older, but now knowledge of my years makes me “prideful”. Strange.

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    27. One is a Christian because they have placed their faith and trust in Jesus Christ. But, you are claiming to become a Christian is based on believing on Catholic tradition. That is foreign to scripture. John 14:6 declares that the only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ not other beliefs especially Catholics.

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    28. I read through it…its essentially a good post, good message. The bottom line is that both you and I both are attempting to do the same to each other, believing the other is in a man-made religion.

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    29. Only one of us is right. You can say I’m wrong but I know in God’s eyes, I’m right and not because of arrogance and pride but because I stick to what Jesus said… If I abide in His Word, I am His disciple. I abide by what I know to be His words, not what would theoretically be His words as the Catholics dub as tradition that did not make it in Scripture and that’s why I reject it.

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    30. Not according to scripture, that’s way you hold to extra Biblical sources because they go against scripture. John 14:6, John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8-9 plainly declares that faith in Jesus Christ that He died for our sins and on the third day rose from the grave is what saves a person, not a church but Jesus alone.

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    31. Its funny how no I’m just a “little kid” who is gun ho! about Catholic Tradition, when before, you had the impression that I was an adult, no doubt from the sort of way I conduct my responses. Before, on All Along the Watchtower, you even said that you loved the debate you, Bosco, Chalcedon, and I had. But now my status is demoted because you realize my age? How conceited.

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    32. I thought that you were an old man and your responses according to what you have told me in the past was grabbed from Catholic sites. By knowing that you are 15 tells me even more about you that you rely heavily on Catholic theologians. Everything that you have said to be is not from you but is by those that you rely heavily on. The information that you are spewing clearly cannot come from a 15 years old kid but comes from whatever Catholic sites or sources you go to. I’m really refuting in a sense those sites not you.

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    33. Spaniard, I do admire theologians whom I believe teach the Truth. I do reference to them. I can come to my own conclusions from my research and study. Don’t insult my knowledge of religion.

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    34. Anyone can do what you did, go to sites and get someone’s study and reword it. That’s why I thought you were older because of the sites who’s info you borrowed. That’s why I don’t read the reformers because then I won’t have any theology, it would be the reformers. My understanding with the help of the Holy Spirit’s is based on my study on scripture alone. My debates with you was really with the sites you used.

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    35. You should have been honest and just said that you read someone’s material that you agreed with. There’s nothing wrong with that but you made me and other people believe that it was yours. For an example, my 15 years old son was asserting that he knew something because he was convinced by a YouTube video.

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    36. I do read other’s material. That doesn’t mean I copied their material. I’m not a plagiarist. All this work IS my own, unless footnotes say otherwise. And yes, it is insulting. You are saying, just because of my age, I cannot write articles on religion because I cannot think for myself. If that’s not an insult, I don’t now what is.

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    37. If you do so well on your own, why promote Christian sites on your blog?

      Spaniard, when I take from another source, I footnote it. Anything not done that way is drawn from my mental bank of knowledge. Please quit insulting me. You do not know me well enough to day I’m not capable of forming my own understanding of something without heavily relying on resources.

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    38. I’m not insulting you, trust me. It’s hard to talk to people on the internet. I became a Christian at age 14 and I honestly needed help from grown mature Christians to help me understand the Bible.

      Now, the resources I have in my blog is not for me but for those who might need help, and so I put pastors I think preach with unwavering biblical authority.

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    39. “…borrowing grown up material and making people believe he is an older person. He is being dishonest making people believe that those are his material which he just is restating them in his own words.”

      Since when have I been borrowing material? That is just your assumption. There is no dishonesty here. I most certainly am not copying articles and repeating them in my own words. Anyone could do that. Why single me out? Just because I’m 15? Don’t judge me against yourself, or your own teen son.

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    1. 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
      Build on the Rock
      24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
      26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”
      -Matthew 7:21-27

      Patrick, I need you to pay close attention to verse 21-23. That is a scary thought isn’t it?

      Jesus told His believers that His Word is the foundation, what we find to be continued by the apostles through their physical interaction during their mission trips and through their letters which is what we have in our bibles today.

      Apparently, you really didn’t read my response to you since you keep pressing on the same thing. I already said tradition itself is not prohibited as long as they stay in the confines of what was written. The Catholics prohibited people to keep copies of their bibles because they wanted to impose their tradition which was nowhere to be found in the letters to ensure their grip on the people which they know full well would leave the Catholic church if they found out that what they were claiming to be apostolic tradition all along is not even that.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. Tradition? you make no sense because Peter called Pauls letters scripture as the others (scripture) Peter says, so it is very clear that the message of Christ was intended to be written down. This attack on the Bible is mind boggling coming from a Catholic that professes that it is God’s Word and at the same time attack it like an atheist would.

      Liked by 1 person

    3. I attack the notion that God’s written Word is sufficient. I protect the notion that God’s written Word, and His unwritten Word are both equal sources of Revelation. I protect the notion that Christ established His Church as the teacher of His revelation.

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    4. Look, I understand why some of your questions sounded off and you rely heavily on other sources to translate the Bible for you. It doesn’t matter what I say. You need to stop reading those books and just sit down with some chocolate milk (no jokes intended) and just read the bible by itself and let it speak to you.

      Liked by 2 people

  4. @Spaniardviii you need to lay off of the Catholic Thinker (Patrick). Its kind of demeaning continually calling him “little kid”. I’ve been watching his work for the past two months, and while you may disagree with his thinking, he explains his beliefs very well. He at least backs up his thoughts with reasoning instead of just shouting “YOU’RE WRONG!!”

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not Catholic. I’m on my own spiritual journey learning about Christianity. But seeing you say things like that turns me off about Christianity a bit. Be a little kinder maybe? In a debate, age doesn’t determine wisdom.

    Thanks.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Matthew 23:15
      Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You traverse land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

      Matthew 23:33
      You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape the sentence of hell?

      Matthew 12:34
      You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

      Now, this is the Living God Jesus Christ talking to the Pharisees who added to the scriptures like the Catholics, tradition which Jesus forthright rejected.

      @biker999 – I didn’t even say to Patrick what Jesus said to the Pharisees and you say that I turned you off. To be honest, you are turned off by the truth, you say you are on a journey but at the same time, you have sided with Patrick’s belief in the Catholic tradition.

      You are turned off by Jesus, not by me, Jesus said that if they reject you they have rejected me. Your problem is not with me telling Patrick he is wrong but it is with the truth of the gospel.

      Anyone who sides, and I mean anyone, with extra sources that contradict the Bible has completely rejected Jesus.

      Side note: You are seeking the truth through your emotions, just like an atheist that cannot believe in Jesus because they are turned off by God sending people to hell. Emotions will always steer you away from the truth, something to think about.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. Spaniard, friend! Calm down! I am by no means siding with anyone on religion right now. I am merely asking you not to be so condescending in your rebuttals.

      I like a good debate, and am not telling you to let up on him or anyone else you disagree with. just be kinder. I’m not Catholic. I am studying the Christian religion. The RCC is a great defender of unborn life, and other moral issues I agree on, but I’m not siding Catholic on salvation beliefs. I’m having trouble grasping the concept of an infallible pope. That’s a turn off for me, as it does appear biblical.

      All I’m asking it to treat everyone as an equal debater on here, ok? You can disagree, just don’t be calling him “kid”.

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    3. Look, he is a kid that’s borrowing grown up material and making people believe he is an older person. He is being dishonest making people believe that those are his material which he just is restating them in his own words. He should have just said that in the first place and said that it is someone’s material that he agrees with, not make it is own.

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    4. I respect everyone and don’t call people names or anything else. You are going by emotions and what do you say about Jesus who called the religious ruler “a group of snakes?”

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  5. Spaniard, can we please not do this… Patrick is not a fake who tries to make people believe he is older than what he is, also, if I have seen correctly, his bio on his webpage says that he is 15, typed by Patrick’s own fingers. Tell me, how is using articles and religious studies to support an argument (whilst giving credit to the original authors) plagiarism? Jesus was 12 when he was in the temple TEACHING the rabbis there… your argument states that since Patrick is the age of 15, he cannot talk about theological matters. So was it wrong for Jesus to be talking about theology in the temple because of his age? What makes you think that a 15 year old cannot simply discuss theological matters? I am sure that I would say a lot of things that you would agree with, Spaniard, however, R.C. Sproul, a well-known Protestant theologian, recently wrote a book, about how “everyone is a theologian”. He means that although not everyone has studied theology, and you may not know as much about the Scriptures as Sproul himself, every Christian still has at least a simple theological knowledge… including 15 year olds.

    P.S I’m 15 as well, just so you know.

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    1. Jesus Christ as a 12 year old boy being God in the flesh should be excluded as a comparison. Patrick is unqualified to debate, in other words, children shouldn’t get into adult conversation especially in spiritual matters. To engage in a spiritual debate, one has to be

      1. Saved which he is not.
      2. a believer for a considerable amount of time to have experience in the faith.

      I’m not against children telling people about Jesus but to debate an adult is a no no.

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    2. Your physical age may be higher than Patrick’s, however your level of respect is minimal. I recently was talking to an adult, who is a Catholic, about Purgatory. Was it wrong for me to have a friendly conversation and give reasoning for my opinion? If so I should probably repent.
      Also questioning someone’s salvation is a thing that we actually shouldn’t be doing, and, considering my age, I shouldn’t be telling you this. I do not see why you should be so bigoted towards this… it’s just stupid. Let me ask: If Jesus was right next to you watching you type those nasty things to Patrick, would he appreciate it?

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    3. Hello there. I appreciate your camaraderie with Patrick.

      “Questioning someone’s salvation is a thing that we actually shouldn’t be doing…”

      Jesus in Matthew 7:16 tells his disciples how to tell who belongs to Him by lining up their fruit. Sad thing is Patrick being so young and yourself are defending an institution that enforces through their tradition to directly go against scripture.

      Do take the time to examine the validity of this rather than defending some institution you ended up siding with because you happen to be born in it. I guarantee that if one is truly seeking truth, the Catholic Institution and its tradition is far from it. Even Jesus himself would condemn the RCC like He did the Pharisees.

      If you want to continue schooling an adult, contact Spaniard directly in his blog. I will not tolerate it here.

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  6. Hello Caeli,
    I may have misworded that statement, I meant that you shouldn’t go and bluntly say that someone is not saved whilst giving no reasoning and putting yourself in a higher position. (which is what Spaniard did) Jesus did tell people that they weren’t saved, however he didn’t do it in an arrogant way and he gave reasonable evidence towards it, and he tried to help them.
    I’m sorry you had to put up with this rubbish, I’ll try not to comment here anymore.

    Like

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